General Changes

[Birdybot]

This thread is to discuss general changes that can be made to improve site mechanics with Enera's revival.

You can use the Feedback board to make suggestions and post criticisms, too, but I'm using this thread just for prompting change and that while I'm reviving Enera.

My main concerns are the freeform posts in the training ground and the system of rating characters to determine the rarity of their starter. It's pretty unclear as to what will get more levels or a better rating. Some people aren't as creative as others, and I don't want to have the site set against them. With some characters, there simply isn't much to say about them in their profiles.

As such, changing these two systems is top of my concerns, but I'll deal with anything else you guys want to raise, too. I did make all the rules and everything up when I was first making the site back when I was 12/13, so as a 17-year-old, looking back I can see a lot of flaws and want to change things.

I don't know about the freeform training threads thing, but so far my ideas for the profiles are that we just stick with accepted/rejected. The starters would then be determined some other way. I'm open to suggestions. My own ideas are either monthly starters, choosing up to three different types and having six Pokémon randomised for you, or being able to pick from a set (but long) list. There'd be a normal chance of finding a shiny as a starter, that is 1 in 20, although perhaps requests for shinies could still be made to improve chances?

The discussion so far:

• Accepting characters; Settling on changing the current method of rating by rarities based off how good a bio is to the basic accept/reject system.

• Starters; Again, almost settled, although discussion can be opened again if anyone's not happy. Previously done based on rarity of the person's profile. Now all three Enera starters will be available to anyone, with 15 other starters available that will change each month. Each trainer can see 3 of these, and then can see 3 randomised Pokémon, for which up to three types can be picked to randomise from. There will be a normal chance of finding a shiny (1 in 20), but if the mod thinks the player's bio is very well thought out and/or that their writing style is good, they may improve those odds, and if the writing and bio is really good, one of more of the Pokémon they ask to see will definitely be shiny.

• Wild encounters; Still discussing, towards settled. Concerns mods more than regular members. Certain types of Pokémon may be found on each route, and random number generators will be used to determine the rarity of Pokémon the trainer encounters. Still deciding on whether to just have certain types on each route, or to have a set list of Pokémon that can be found on each route.

• Extra training; Fairly big, unresolved issue. Previously, the system for the extra training area was that a better, longer post gained more levels. Currently discussing a lot of different alternatives. See below, there's a lot going on.

• Leveling; Ongoing discussion. Potentially more levels to be gained when winning, more levels gained for defeating a trainer than a wild Pokémon, and earning levels for losing a battle as well.

• Movesets from previous generations; This one seems to be causing some controversy. Should all Pokémon have their moveset from the latest generation of games to be released, or should each Pokémon use a different generation for their moveset? Should there be an item that lets Pokémon learn moves from a previous generation?

• TM/HM/egg moves/etc Base Power scaling; To prevent brand new trainers being able to run around with Pokémon knowing ridiculously powerful attacks, the base power of moves not learned through leveling up is limited depending on how many badges a trainer has.

• Extra areas; More extra areas shall be added so that there is one for each Pokémon type. Trainers can meet up here, or can search for specific Pokémon they really want to catch. Maybe even plots with legendaries.

[Angel]

I think maybe rather than rating a character application to determine the rarity of their starter, maybe we can have accept or reject like you said. That way we're not really judging creativity and are giving free reign.

I do like the idea of having monthly starters. I think maybe they get to choose from 3 set starters every month (which we can discuss more in detail) and then 3 randomised Pokémon based on 3 types that they ask for? For example the set Pokémon are Charmander, Bulbasaur and Squirtle. Then I ask for a randomised electric-tye, ice-type and ghost-type, and they are randomised as Pichu, Sneasel and Gastly. That way it's not completely set? Or we could go with your way, which sounds equally as good I think

Plus I think there's a code for something to randomise shinies, like a dice of some sort. For example, you can do something like [dice=50] and then the dice will randomised (once you've posted), and say you can only give them a shiny if it's the number 1? Dunno if this'll work; gotta see once I've posted this. I'll give you the code if it does and you're interested.

Plus I don't think we should do the training threads like we used to. Just writing pages and pages of stuff that the Mod has to read in order to determine levels will be time-consuming, especially if we think this place is gonna get busy. So maybe a thread where each character can post 2 Pokémon at a time, once per week, and the Mod them just 'gives' them 2 levels each. For example, through like a military school or something like that?

P.S The dice roll didn't work. So ignore that XD But the principle could be the same if we find a RNG online and then use that, so input the numbers 1-20 or 1-50 or something like that, and then if 1 appears that means it's a shiny.

[Birdybot]

I quite like the idea of three fixed monthly starters and three randomized ones! Perhaps there could be a shipment of say, 10 or 15 different species of Pokémon to the lab each month? The trainer could see up to three of those, and up to three randomized Pokémon of one, two or three different types of their choosing?

Two Pokémon gaining two levels per week sounds good. Perhaps the number of Pokémon that can be trained per week could increase as the trainer earns more badges? The further along they are, the more Pokémon they'll have, so that just helps even up the levels on their team a bit. There's the option to battle NPCs or other characters at the training grounds too, which can earn more levels than wild Pokémon.

As for shinies, I don't know how to get the dice thing working, but previously I used this random generator (link), picked between 1 and 20, then said if it was a 9 it would be shiny (just because 9's my lucky number). I also used that for getting genders and abilities. I could see if at some point I can code something which will generate everything for a Pokémon at once!

That brings about another point; Pokémon encounters. Would it be a good idea to come up with a list of Pokémon that can be found in the wild on each route? I'd make sure every Pokémon can be found, and of course the extra areas can be used to find Pokémon. Mods could always make Pokémon that can't usually be found appear if they want to as part of a mini-plot, I guess. Perhaps really rare Pokémon could be found as part of mini-plots, too? Before I wasn't taking into account how rare the Pokémon were, but if I made a long list of Pokémon living on each route, that would be much easier.

[Angel]

Oooh yeah, I like that a lot. It means that everyone's route and character partnerships/teams will be slightly different so I think it's really good. Wooo! Got that part settled.

And yeah, for every badge you get to add one more Pokémon. That's an excellent idea, more benefits for those that stay and are dedicated, a way of encouraging people to stay active.

Yeah, well if you can't code something then we can just use the ones somewhere online, but either way it'll work And then we could have a staff board where everyone records the 'Shiny Spin' or something just so that we keep track that everyone's being fair.

And maybe rather than creating a long list that will take up a lot of your time and effort, you just state types that appear. For example in a forest Pokémon have to have at least one of these types: grass, bug, poison, normal, flying. THen people can spawn specific types rather than keeping checking back. And of course you can have type overlaps so on a mountain you can also find flying Pokémon, but also ice etc?

As for rarity, I think that can only be solved as a list. But rather than listing everything from legendary to common. You just do legendary, extinct, rare? Then everything else is just common/uncommon without having to list every single Pokémon?

(Just trying to make it easier for you XD)

[Birdybot]

People could still lie when recording the numbers generated, so it would be better to have something like the dice, so everyone knows they're being fair.

There's the big list of the rarity of every Pokémon already sorted somewhere in the rules. That could be used, then the numbers could be weighted to make it more fair. For example, only one number generates an ultra rare, 3 give a rare, 5 very uncommon, 8 uncommon, 12 common and so on. I'll just play around with the numbers and come up with a rough draft;

Categories: Very common, common, uncommon, very uncommon, rare, ultra rare, legendary.
Total: 7

Roll number between 1 and 41
Legendary: (only special events, can't be generated) 0% chance
Ultra rare: 1 (1 number) 2.44% chance
Rare: 2-3 (2 numbers) 4.88% chance
Very uncommon: 4-7 (4 numbers) 9.76% chance
Uncommon: 8-14 (7 numbers) 12.20% chance
Common: 15-25 (11 numbers) 26.83% chance
Very common: 26-41 (16 numbers) 39.02% chance

That seem reasonable? I like the idea of stating which types can be found on each route. I was sort of doing that before, but it would be a good idea to do that officially.

[Red]

I have a suggestion for a change to the game mechanics in regards to move sets. I think it would be pretty cool, and rather sensible, to have each pokemon take their moveset from a differnt game. So say, one person could have a charmander whose learned moves follow the group laid out in emerald, while another has the moveset laid out in White. This would apply to HMs/TMs learnable and Egg moves as well as the level up moveset. Each pokemon would be set their applicable moveset when caught, and maybe let people choose the moveset for their starter (and any pokemon being carried over from before the restart). Given the massive mechanics differnece between gens 1/2 and gens 3 onwards, I'd suggest having pokemon with red/blue/green and gold/silver/crystal movesets being things which can only be acquired as prizes from giveaways and the like.

As for starters, I like the idea of having three different starters available each month and three randomised ones. I'd suggest also setting it up so that you can always be allowed to chose one of the three region starters no matter what else is available.

[Birdybot]

That's an interesting idea about movesets, I haven't thought of that before. That would also help solve problems when new games are released. I quite like that idea, so Pokémon will have a gen 3, 4 or 5 moveset randomly generated, you can choose with starters/giveaway Pokémon, and occasionally gen 1/2 can be found through giveaways. If other people think that's a good idea, I'll add that to the rules!

That also brings up another thing; TMs, HMs, egg moves, tutor moves and so on. At the moment, you could potentially have level 1 Pokémon learning TM moves with base powers of over 100. Since it'd be a bit overkill to have a new trainer going around with ridiculously powerful movesets, perhaps we could limit the TM/HM/tutor/etc moves that can be taught? For example, they can have a base power of 50 or less before the first badge, up 60 once the first badge is obtained, up to 70 with two badges and so on?

Yeah, the three Enera starters will always be available to anyone at all times of year.

[Rin]

Hiya! So I actually got down to reading everything. :] I’ll try to keep my opinions on all of these ideas as short and concise as possible!

- New Profiles (Accept/Reject): Yes I like this. More people will join also I think because it will be less daunting having to write a gigantically huge character bio. Although I do admit I ended up writing a huge one because I wanted an Ultra Rare, XD So that probably means we won’t get as many massive bios.

- Birdy’s idea “ there could be a shipment of say, 10 or 15 different species of Pokémon to the lab each month? The trainer could see up to three of those, and up to three randomized Pokémon of one, two or three different types of their choosing” Yes. I like it. Perhaps shinies could be given (or more likely to be given) to people who did make spectacular character bios? Since it would encourage people putting more thought and story into their character, and the more attached that people get to their characters the more likely they will be to stay.

- I also really like the idea of having a list of types per route and using a number generator to determine rarity. As a mod I always enjoyed picking what Pokemon people would see, although I would prefer to have a fair way of determining rarity so that solves both. :] A list of Pokemon that can be found per route would be cool too, but I think it would be labor intensive. If you wanted to go that route I wouldn’t mind helping though.

- Training: I just read through the gigantic post I made for training and while it was very entertaining to read, yes. It was BIG and ain’t nobody got that kind of time nowadays. However, I’m a little uneasy at just “bam 2 levels per 2 Pokemon every week” because – well I guess I don’t know what the site will be like once it’s 100% active again – but in general moving along the routes takes slower than a week, so implementing this plan may very well lead to people having Pokemon at level like, 30 by the time they get the first badge. XD Maybe not that dramatic, but you get my point. (I guess this just makes me feel a little uneasy, I could totally eat my words later though).
Additionally, I think that on routes Pokemon should gain levels for winning OR losing, so people aren’t so scared of losing fights. And maybe people could gain like 4 lvls per battle instead of 1 in order to put more emphasis in RP as opposed to waiting and shoring up levels in the training area (if we implement the above plan). We could also keep the paragraph-based level gaining style, maybe 1 level per 5/6-sentence paragraph for people who want extra oomph too and don't want to wait for RP posts.

- Generation Movesets: I am actually fairly against this idea. :’( Reason being, some Pokemon are honestly just really limited in their Gen 3 movesets compared to Black and White. For example, a Generation 3 Scizor learns only 9 moves when leveling up while a Generation 4 or 5 Scizor learns 15. I would honestly just stick to Black/White movesets. (Though of course X and Y are coming out in October)…

- The TM Base Power Scaling idea: Makes good sense. :] Though we’d have to make sure that the move pools were able to scale as fast as Gym Leaders’ levels did.

- A question about the Extra areas: Can we just chillax there even when our Pokemon are on routes? Especially with the Safari Zone. This (and trades?) would afford people a way of being able to catch Pokemon they really want: if someone envisions their character travelling with a certain Pokemon, in the past they could have used their starter to get it, but assuming that system changes it’ll now be impossible.

- It might also be useful if there were a way for people to meet each other more easily, have more member-member RPing.  The Extra areas would be super good for that! Maybe even some Extra areas could have subplots with legendaries so some people could go on smaller adventures of their own, while the big plot is going on and while doing the normal “travel through the routes.”

Anyway I hope this has not been too long-winded

[Red]

I know that some pokemon have pretty limited movesets, but others have sets that can change pretty drastically as time goes on. Take for instance, Charmander, he's had some pretty radical move changes over the generations, they lost total number of moves between 3 and 4, and gained again in 5. But it actually seems pretty realistic to me that some pokemon will learn some moves and some will learn other moves and you can always make up for any perceived lack in the movepool with TMs. It is kind of what their there for.

Plus it's really annoying to have a new RL game come out and suddenly have to change all your pokemon's moves and find that they suddenly don't know moves you've been using from the start and know new moved you don't like/want/use. With this, they keep the same moveset, it elimiates that frusteration, and each time a new game comes out, it just gets added to the list of potential movesets rather than messing up already established pokemon.

[Birdybot]

Wow, Rin, I admire your reading and inputting on all of that. I'll stick every issue that's discussed in my first post so people can easily see what's going on.

Sounds like a plan with the shinies. So far, I've been deciding shinies by picking a number between 1 and 20, then using a random number generator to get a number between 1 and 20. If the number is the one I picked before, it's shiny. Perhaps if the mod is really impressed with a person's bio, they use a smaller range of numbers for determining the shinyness of their starter? For example, if it's a really good bio and the writing in their post is excellent, one of the starters options will be shiny, then if it's still good but not outstanding the number is between 1 and 10, and so on.

Types would definitely be a lot easier than writing out a list for each route. A list would be nice, but realistically too difficult.

I see your point with the training. A lot of the time in a battle there just isn't that much to write about, though. There really needs to be a quick way to level up which still provides some challenge, however. Just brainstorming here, but in the extra area training grounds we could either use NPC battles with more levels gained, some sort of puzzle system with a level earned for every puzzle/riddle solved, Professor Layton style, gaining levels for completing a certain writing challenge or task, anything else you can think of?

Thanks for bringing up the level-gain system in battles in general, I hadn't given it much thought. There certainly should be more losing going on. Sulteron got really far through the routes, and can only remember her ever losing once. I'm happy with the number of levels gained for winning at the moment, but I agree that levels should be earned for losing. I'd suggest 1 level for losing. Also, with a trainer battle, the levels gained should be one higher than for a wild Pokémon battle, including for the loser.

Yes, anyone can go explore the extra areas at any time. I was thinking of making one area for each type. People can then either make open threads with other trainers, or can go off in search of a specific Pokémon they really want. If they make it clear in their thread which Pokémon they're looking for, they could ask local Pokémon if they've seen any and the mod can use that to send them into some fun mini-plot. I'm not so sure about legendaries, though. We could occasionally throw them in. They are the rarest of the rare, but are still catchable.

While I think different generation movesets might get a bit confusing, it shouldn't be much trouble if everyone updates their own Pokémon when new games come out. There aren't too many changes with most Pokémon. If you really want, there could be some sort of item which allows a Pokémon to learn a move from a previous generation? Provided that the Pokémon is past the level it would learn the move at in the previous generation, and provided the move isn't one it would learn later on anyway.

[Red]

If we're adding new areas, could we put one in for stand alone posts? I'd like to do some with my characters doing team bonding that doesn't involve training or progressing down a route. It's also be good for doing In character posts for characters getting give away pokemon if a person wants to write it out.

And if we're doing things that way with the movesets, do we get to grandfather in any moved they might have that aren't part of the newest lineup? Ie: A gen 3 charmander with Metal Claw getting to keep metal claw even when switching to the gen 4/5/ect move line ups would cause it to loose that attack. An item to allow pokemon to learn moves from previous move lines ups sounds like a good compromise between assigning every pokemon a set move progression and forcing everyone to have the latest moves even when someone might want older moves.

[Birdybot]

Standalone posts would be fine. Extra areas would be for anything you want, open threads, quests, anything.

I personally don't think Pokémon would keep previous gen-only moves when moving up a gen, for the sake of fairness with Pokémon obtained after the gen switch, as well as avoiding confusion and keeping things neat. However, they could always be taken to the move relearner?

[Red]

It just seems horribly illogical to me that a pokemon would suddenly and randomly forget a move that it's been using before, especially one that it might have potentially known for a long time. It's one of those things that's always bugged me about the actual games as well. I know that it's because of coding restraints that pokemon can only know so many moves at a time in the actual games, but given pokemon here don't have that limitation, it seems silly and illogical for them to, again using the charmander example because it's the one I most easily remember, forget how to use metal claw, which a charmander used to learn at lv 13, and suddenly learn a random new attack it it's place which it could never use before or, in the charmander's case, permanently lose an attack and get nothing to replace it, because charmander no longer learns any attacks at lv 13.

[Birdybot]

I know, but it just seems fairer so you don't have people having to use special items while others don't. Although, if they don't learn any extra moves when changing gen as games are released (so say a Pokémon is level 20, they learn move x at level 15 in gen 6 but not gen 5, when they move up to gen 6 they will not learn move x) I suppose that could balance it out. More opinions on this would be good!

I've thought of another advantage of having a list of Pokémon to be found on each route. The list could change depending on the season, for one thing. It will also make Enera-exclusive Pokémon appear more often since obviously random Pokémon generators won't include them. A mod could generate the rarity of Pokémon to be found, then either assign each Pokémon on the list for that rarity a number than randomly generate one, or pick a Pokémon from the list based off what's going on in the thread and any plans they might have.

[Rin]

In terms of training and fighting NPCs on routes: NPC fights with more levels gained in the training area would be cool. For losing to those NPCs we could just subtract 1 level from the original amount (to keep people from being scared of losing) so like if one NPC were gonna give 5 levels, losing would give the pokemon 4 levels.
I also quite enjoy the puzzle/riddle/writing for a challenge or theme is a cool idea, would give a way for the staff to help encourage creativity for people who are a little more unsure of thinking of their own ideas.

In terms of losing on routes, I admit honestly for myself that I have been wary of losing on routes, because with no level gain it almost seems as if the time spent writing that RP was “wasted” somehow (that’s a really utilitarian way to look at it of course, but sometimes that line of thought occurs to me unfortunately). During my time modding I have also noticed other people seeming really adverse to having their pokemon get weak during battles too, probably for the same reason?

Extra Area Legendaries: Oh no I wasn’t thinking of catching one (and anyway, catching a legendary forcefully in a pokeball? Pretty sure they would have to decide to travel with the trainer). I was just thinking of subplots involving legendaries, like for example in say Moonsong Beach, a trainer strolling along there might find a teenage boy with blue hair looking for a Red Orb that he has lost. If the trainer decides to help him, and talk to the boy, they will find that the Red Orb allows him to contact his sister and it’s been stolen by what the boy describes as a dark purple shadow that is rumored to hide in a cave somewhere there. Eventually the trainer and boy find the cave and defeat the Spiritomb who took the orb; upon returning the orb to the boy he reveals himself to be a Latios (who uses the Red Orb to talk to his sister, Latias). He then might give the trainer an Eon Stone for helping him (or something) which would call Latios to his aid if he used it. Or something. XD Not actually catching the legendaries, just making connections with them in order to be more integrated into the world of Enera.

That was just an example though. Lol. Now I want to actually use this plot.

Additionally, Extra Areas would open up the possibility of big “minibosses” or plots or puzzles that are or are not connected to the main one, that would require multiple people to complete. Like really powerful legendaries that require multiple Pokemon fighting at once to bring down if they are under level 30. This would also encourage members on the site to RP together. :]

But of course more extra areas would be great! And being able to look for certain Pokemon would be awesome too. There are so many awesome possibilities: volcanoes, canyons, glades, islands, caves, castles, etc :’D

Movesets: I guess my beef with randomizing generational movesets is that some Pokemon would become really weak and obsolete with an earlier moveset as opposed to later ones. Like with Kingdra, it’s Gen 3 movepool is really just bad compared to its Gen 4/5 one. (Like I know that TMs are supposed to supplement it, but sometimes in Gen 4/5 the pokemon learn moves you can’t learn with Move Tutors or TMs). So like if I’m trying to catch a Horsea and then I finally catch one and it’s got a Gen 3 moveset I would feel like “welp…that was useless. ” I like the idea of using an item to get old generation moves if you want it. Or maybe every pokemon automatically will have the highest generation moves when being roleplayed by a mod, but if a Trainer catches the Pokemon they can decide if they want to shift its moveset to an older gen (permanently)?

Again, a list of Pokemon found on each route would be lovely but labor intensive, especially if they switch every season (although I would be glad to help out with this). Very good point about Enera exclusive Pokemon though!
I do enjoy being able to pick the pokemon on the list based on rarity I get from the generator though. 